[MUSIC]
Over the next several weeks, you'll meet a
number of artists, Cal Arts faculty, and alumni
who joined me to explore a work of
art relevant to the week's theme, in greater detail.
This first week, though, we are doing something a
bit different to help you prepare for your own coursework
and the peer review process by which the work will be reviewed.
One of the most important things for any artist is to
learn how to give and get constructive
feedback on their work.
This critique process, as it's called in art schools,
is central to teaching and learning at CalArts,
and there's a citation on the course
syllabus page for a really wonderful essay on
one of the most renowned critique seminars at
CalArts, taught for years by Michael Asher.
So, I sat down with three CalArts MFA students to talk about the critique
process, and about how artists absorb feedback,
both good and bad, into their working process.
The first thing to notice as we watch the studio visits that I did with each of
you is I don't think any of us use the words, good, bad, I like that.
But it's not criticism, right?
It's critique.
So maybe we could talk a little bit about how we think about
what we bring to that and what we need from it as artists.
>> I
think the distinction between criticism
and critique is, you know, fundamental.
In understanding how to access a critique and how to then direct it.
We tend to like, expect criticism, instead of directing a critique.
>> Yeah, and I think, too, words
like, I like it
or I don't like it, or this is good, or
this is bad--
that at some really broad level, critique is trying to
get at that, but it's trying to just get
you to articulate,
well, if you think it's bad, you probably have a philosophical position on why.
>> It's also a form of research
in that way, too.
Because we start out as artists with this notion of, I want to do
something, or I'd like to see something
that looks like this, or works like that.
And then the thing that we do goes out in
the world and becomes a thing in its own right
and exists as a public,
you know, gesture or object. And it may
be read completely differently than the way we intended.
>> I think they're most
beneficial when something unexpected happens, or when
somebody is, for example, offended by a
piece, or there's something that could easily
be relegated to a 'good' or 'bad.'
And then to question why that reaction happened.
Not that the reaction itself doesn't
matter, but more importantly, why it happened.
>> Mm-hm.
>> Because then you can arrive at
something in
the piece that could be problematic, which
might be interesting.
>> There's all these different
emotional narratives that happen in a
critique, you know,
where you're putting something that you're
very close to out.
But then ultimately, there's all these kinds
of emotional flows around your work, because you
are invested in it as an artist. And so words like 'problematic' might come up.
I'm a performer, and sometimes performers
call out the audience
in a way that puts them on the spot, you
know.
And so, when someone says, 'This is problematic,' I'm
like, 'Awesome,' because that's what you should be making
as an artist, is problems for
reality, you know?
>> How are people responding?
How are they reading this?
Am I communicating ideas?
And maybe they are seeing things that I don't see, you know. I wasn't even
conscious of, I wasn't even aware that this
was in the work, but look, there it is.
>> As artists, we have to figure out, what's
that moment in the work's development where we can afford
to have it come into public for critique,
and having that critique be generative, rather than foreclosing an idea.
So, how do you sort that out in terms of,
when it's your turn for critique, what you're going to bring?
>> I personally can never show
something that is in process.
>> Mm-hm.
>> Even if it's performatively, or
narratively, or I'm going
to orate something, that has to feel like a finished presentation,
even if the idea that I'm presenting might
be about something that's not there.
>> Right.
>> So it needs to feel like, now I've
created a performance about this object
that's not present.
>> I can see why it's almost safer, in some instances, to
show documentation of something that has already happened, or, you know.
And it's a little stranger and,
perhaps, riskier to show something that's
completely undeveloped,
but is still in process. And in that
kind of space of like potentiality,
there's risk, but I think that's also the best moment to show work.
>> One of the great gifts of being in school, especially as an MFA
student, is to have people agree to spend
that much time talking about your work.
But, you know, you need that when you're not
in art school, as well.
So, how do you think about building the
community that you
need to sustain your work through critique when you leave CalArts?
>> I'm just sort of counting on that
I'm going to have friends, you know?
I came to school,
I'm part of a community,
they have friends,
I'm going out, I'm going to openings, I'm going to become
part of, you know, a larger community that
exists out there.
And while we're probably not all
going to go over to someone's apartment and look at
their video or whatever and sit and
critique about it,
you're going to have these encounters.
Probably more on a one-on-one basis,
but, I mean, I'm just not-- haven't crossed that bridge yet.
But I'm just assuming that this
is going to come through friendships, you
know.
>> I think that the networks are real.
And the people that you bond with,
that will carry outside of, you
know,
>> Mm-hm.
>> the institution.
And if it doesn't, you can always imagine, you know, well what would so-and-so say?
And you can kind of perform.
>> You can start to ventriloquize
[LAUGH] [CROSSTALK] >> I do, I
have friends in art that have
graduated from grad school.
And I go to their studio.
We talk about their work.
And it's more like a, 'hey let's go grab lunch,' and
we maybe go for a swim at the local pool or something.
And then we end up at the studio and we're like, 'wow, this thing's weird,' you know?
But we can talk
in these candid terms, and then slowly the critical discourse emerges.
And sometimes, oh, so-and-so's down the street.
Maybe we should get them involved.
And then now we have like a three person
critique.
>> Mm-hm.
>> So it is a lot more casual in that
sense.
But it could be more formal if-- whatever you decide,
as a community, that you want, you can create that.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Let me ask the question from the other side.
We've talked a little bit about how
we either direct or negotiate the critique of our own work.
But what about being the member of that community whose job,
at the moment, is to offer the critique to somebody else.
When you put that other hat on,
how do
you think about what your
work and your responsibility is?
You used the word ethics, but...
>> For me, I learned I'm a verbal
processor.
>> Mm-hm.
>> And so, when I'm engaging with
somebody's work, it's
just really, I'm always engaging with a thing in the world.
And now this becomes
a thing that I know that someone else spent a lot of time hoping that I would
unpack something out of it, but really it's just
this thing that I'm kind of bouncing off
of.
And I just think coming to it with a sense
of investment--
for them,
>> Mm-hm.
>> in some senses, but also for myself.
>> Right.
>> That I'm going to see how I think by
reflecting off of this object.
>> Mm-hm.
>> Out loud.
That that's great, you know, because then I'm learning, just as
much as they're taking something from the piece, or something.
>> How do you navigate hearing things you don't want to hear?
[LAUGH]
>> That's sometimes the best thing, though.
>> Well, yeah.
>> I love hearing things that I
don't
want to hear, that I don't like to hear.
And I anticipate those things.
Well, I try to anticipate those things.
And so, when it happens more, like, the most important
thing to do is to question why.
So, what is it about this thing
that I heard that I didn't want to hear? That truly troubles me, or
where does it come from, what place does
it come from, and what is it really
saying?
>> On the larger social scale, but
certainly as an artist, you need to
be willing to accept that there's a
diversity of opinions, a diversity of
viewpoints.
And that this is something that
you have to wrestle with.
>> Being able to see when something you
don't
want to hear could be a positive platform
for you to
engage with, and when it could be something that's malicious or, you know.
I mean, as much as we want to think
that this process of engaging with art is totally
benevolent, and we're all here for each other,
there are times where a tit-for-tat
happens.
>> Mm-hm.
>> Or, like, someone is having a bad day
and they just feel like slamming your art, you know?
>> Mm-hm.
>> They just feel like really just handing it to somebody.
And you kind
of have to recognize that
>> Right.
>> the critique is not a vacuum, that there's all
these people with all these different life experiences coming to it.
And they're going to throw something off
the wall sometimes, and you
gotta just be able to catch it and go, like, 'Hey.'
>> One of the things you learn is how to sort out the things that you
need to hear from the things that you're just going to let slide off of you.
And any artist has to have that balance between a
kind of openness and an internal integrity that I think
they have to practice, too, in order to hone it.
>> Mm-hm.
It's harder to navigate silence in a
critique.
>> Right.
>> Yeah, that's the worst.
>> Because it's kind of, it's nice when you get, like, a
reaction, whether it's, you know, a strong reaction, positive or negative,
whether it's a result of someone's bad day, or whatever it is,
or their own filter that's clearly--
they're just seeing what they're working on,
because that's all they can think about, or they read
something once, and they haven't read it enough, and that's all
they can read, you know, everywhere else.
Yeah, that's harder to navigate.
[CROSSTALK]
>> Indifference is the worst criticism.
>> So, part of the reason, in the end, we're thinking about this
is because many of the assignments in this
course are going to be peer-assessed.
And we will have a very large community of artists and students
from all over the world that are going to be engaged in this process.
So, our conversation today was, in
a way, to start everybody
thinking about how they are going to participate in what is a very,
potentially unwieldy, but also really
dynamic community of artists online.
[MUSIC]
Over the next several weeks, you'll meet a
number of artists, Cal Arts faculty, and alumni
who joined me to explore a work of
art relevant to the week's theme, in greater detail.
This first week, though, we are doing something a
bit different to help you prepare for your own coursework
and the peer review process by which the work will be reviewed.
One of the most important things for any artist is to
learn how to give and get constructive
feedback on their work.
This critique process, as it's called in art schools,
is central to teaching and learning at CalArts,
and there's a citation on the course
syllabus page for a really wonderful essay on
one of the most renowned critique seminars at
CalArts, taught for years by Michael Asher.
So, I sat down with three CalArts MFA students to talk about the critique
process, and about how artists absorb feedback,
both good and bad, into their working process.
The first thing to notice as we watch the studio visits that I did with each of
you is I don't think any of us use the words, good, bad, I like that.
But it's not criticism, right?
It's critique.
So maybe we could talk a little bit about how we think about
what we bring to that and what we need from it as artists.
>> I
think the distinction between criticism
and critique is, you know, fundamental.
In understanding how to access a critique and how to then direct it.
We tend to like, expect criticism, instead of directing a critique.
>> Yeah, and I think, too, words
like, I like it
or I don't like it, or this is good, or
this is bad--
that at some really broad level, critique is trying to
get at that, but it's trying to just get
you to articulate,
well, if you think it's bad, you probably have a philosophical position on why.
>> It's also a form of research
in that way, too.
Because we start out as artists with this notion of, I want to do
something, or I'd like to see something
that looks like this, or works like that.
And then the thing that we do goes out in
the world and becomes a thing in its own right
and exists as a public,
you know, gesture or object. And it may
be read completely differently than the way we intended.
>> I think they're most
beneficial when something unexpected happens, or when
somebody is, for example, offended by a
piece, or there's something that could easily
be relegated to a 'good' or 'bad.'
And then to question why that reaction happened.
Not that the reaction itself doesn't
matter, but more importantly, why it happened.
>> Mm-hm.
>> Because then you can arrive at
something in
the piece that could be problematic, which
might be interesting.
>> There's all these different
emotional narratives that happen in a
critique, you know,
where you're putting something that you're
very close to out.
But then ultimately, there's all these kinds
of emotional flows around your work, because you
are invested in it as an artist. And so words like 'problematic' might come up.
I'm a performer, and sometimes performers
call out the audience
in a way that puts them on the spot, you
know.
And so, when someone says, 'This is problematic,' I'm
like, 'Awesome,' because that's what you should be making
as an artist, is problems for
reality, you know?
>> How are people responding?
How are they reading this?
Am I communicating ideas?
And maybe they are seeing things that I don't see, you know. I wasn't even
conscious of, I wasn't even aware that this
was in the work, but look, there it is.
>> As artists, we have to figure out, what's
that moment in the work's development where we can afford
to have it come into public for critique,
and having that critique be generative, rather than foreclosing an idea.
So, how do you sort that out in terms of,
when it's your turn for critique, what you're going to bring?
>> I personally can never show
something that is in process.
>> Mm-hm.
>> Even if it's performatively, or
narratively, or I'm going
to orate something, that has to feel like a finished presentation,
even if the idea that I'm presenting might
be about something that's not there.
>> Right.
>> So it needs to feel like, now I've
created a performance about this object
that's not present.
>> I can see why it's almost safer, in some instances, to
show documentation of something that has already happened, or, you know.
And it's a little stranger and,
perhaps, riskier to show something that's
completely undeveloped,
but is still in process. And in that
kind of space of like potentiality,
there's risk, but I think that's also the best moment to show work.
>> One of the great gifts of being in school, especially as an MFA
student, is to have people agree to spend
that much time talking about your work.
But, you know, you need that when you're not
in art school, as well.
So, how do you think about building the
community that you
need to sustain your work through critique when you leave CalArts?
>> I'm just sort of counting on that
I'm going to have friends, you know?
I came to school,
I'm part of a community,
they have friends,
I'm going out, I'm going to openings, I'm going to become
part of, you know, a larger community that
exists out there.
And while we're probably not all
going to go over to someone's apartment and look at
their video or whatever and sit and
critique about it,
you're going to have these encounters.
Probably more on a one-on-one basis,
but, I mean, I'm just not-- haven't crossed that bridge yet.
But I'm just assuming that this
is going to come through friendships, you
know.
>> I think that the networks are real.
And the people that you bond with,
that will carry outside of, you
know,
>> Mm-hm.
>> the institution.
And if it doesn't, you can always imagine, you know, well what would so-and-so say?
And you can kind of perform.
>> You can start to ventriloquize
[LAUGH] [CROSSTALK] >> I do, I
have friends in art that have
graduated from grad school.
And I go to their studio.
We talk about their work.
And it's more like a, 'hey let's go grab lunch,' and
we maybe go for a swim at the local pool or something.
And then we end up at the studio and we're like, 'wow, this thing's weird,' you know?
But we can talk
in these candid terms, and then slowly the critical discourse emerges.
And sometimes, oh, so-and-so's down the street.
Maybe we should get them involved.
And then now we have like a three person
critique.
>> Mm-hm.
>> So it is a lot more casual in that
sense.
But it could be more formal if-- whatever you decide,
as a community, that you want, you can create that.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Let me ask the question from the other side.
We've talked a little bit about how
we either direct or negotiate the critique of our own work.
But what about being the member of that community whose job,
at the moment, is to offer the critique to somebody else.
When you put that other hat on,
how do
you think about what your
work and your responsibility is?
You used the word ethics, but...
>> For me, I learned I'm a verbal
processor.
>> Mm-hm.
>> And so, when I'm engaging with
somebody's work, it's
just really, I'm always engaging with a thing in the world.
And now this becomes
a thing that I know that someone else spent a lot of time hoping that I would
unpack something out of it, but really it's just
this thing that I'm kind of bouncing off
of.
And I just think coming to it with a sense
of investment--
for them,
>> Mm-hm.
>> in some senses, but also for myself.
>> Right.
>> That I'm going to see how I think by
reflecting off of this object.
>> Mm-hm.
>> Out loud.
That that's great, you know, because then I'm learning, just as
much as they're taking something from the piece, or something.
>> How do you navigate hearing things you don't want to hear?
[LAUGH]
>> That's sometimes the best thing, though.
>> Well, yeah.
>> I love hearing things that I
don't
want to hear, that I don't like to hear.
And I anticipate those things.
Well, I try to anticipate those things.
And so, when it happens more, like, the most important
thing to do is to question why.
So, what is it about this thing
that I heard that I didn't want to hear? That truly troubles me, or
where does it come from, what place does
it come from, and what is it really
saying?
>> On the larger social scale, but
certainly as an artist, you need to
be willing to accept that there's a
diversity of opinions, a diversity of
viewpoints.
And that this is something that
you have to wrestle with.
>> Being able to see when something you
don't
want to hear could be a positive platform
for you to
engage with, and when it could be something that's malicious or, you know.
I mean, as much as we want to think
that this process of engaging with art is totally
benevolent, and we're all here for each other,
there are times where a tit-for-tat
happens.
>> Mm-hm.
>> Or, like, someone is having a bad day
and they just feel like slamming your art, you know?
>> Mm-hm.
>> They just feel like really just handing it to somebody.
And you kind
of have to recognize that
>> Right.
>> the critique is not a vacuum, that there's all
these people with all these different life experiences coming to it.
And they're going to throw something off
the wall sometimes, and you
gotta just be able to catch it and go, like, 'Hey.'
>> One of the things you learn is how to sort out the things that you
need to hear from the things that you're just going to let slide off of you.
And any artist has to have that balance between a
kind of openness and an internal integrity that I think
they have to practice, too, in order to hone it.
>> Mm-hm.
It's harder to navigate silence in a
critique.
>> Right.
>> Yeah, that's the worst.
>> Because it's kind of, it's nice when you get, like, a
reaction, whether it's, you know, a strong reaction, positive or negative,
whether it's a result of someone's bad day, or whatever it is,
or their own filter that's clearly--
they're just seeing what they're working on,
because that's all they can think about, or they read
something once, and they haven't read it enough, and that's all
they can read, you know, everywhere else.
Yeah, that's harder to navigate.
[CROSSTALK]
>> Indifference is the worst criticism.
>> So, part of the reason, in the end, we're thinking about this
is because many of the assignments in this
course are going to be peer-assessed.
And we will have a very large community of artists and students
from all over the world that are going to be engaged in this process.
So, our conversation today was, in
a way, to start everybody
thinking about how they are going to participate in what is a very,
potentially unwieldy, but also really
dynamic community of artists online.
[MUSIC]